This was a unique project in that we had the challenge of covering three incredible humans… all at once… for the first time in the history of the project. Enter Tiffany Myrick, Annie Kleiman, and Eve Mayoral… all three women extremely vital to the military’s Cultural Support Team program. At the time, there was no sure-fire way of doing things when it came to engaging with the female population… so the CSTs were an introduction to a vast space that had been otherwise unexplored. Renegades… with a very important cause. Tiffany, Annie, and Eve come from very different backgrounds with various reasons for joining but one thing brought them all together. Service. Service to a nation that asked for a unique approach to something very specific. Although even they were unsure of the task ahead when being called into a formidable selection process, all three tackled the task with admirable vigor and certain courage. These women would all be asked to not only act in support of Special Operations through VSO (Village Stability Operations) missions but also DA (Direct Action). The immensity of such a task is difficult to encapsulate in the course of one story so the task was given to three… three women, three war-fighters, three storytellers.

Now all of it… left behind. The CST mission has since been abandoned, another casualty of the drawdown in Afghanistan. But, the legacy carries on through these collective voices. Tiffany, Annie, Eve. Three pieces of an extremely complex tapestry woven through an even more complicated war. Mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, human beings… ready to stand and answer the call even if that call didn’t always come in clear. It was their mission, their cause, their choice to stand and answer. This project is dedicated to the memories of three other women…  1st Lieutenant Ashley White, Captain Jennifer Moreno, and Senior Chief Petty Officer Shannon Kent… all killed in action. A painful but important reminder of the toll of our efforts in the Global War on Terrorism. May we never forget their sacrifices and those losses felt daily by families left behind.

We’d like to thank KADRI Clothing for sponsoring the project. To learn more about KADRI and their mission, hit the link.

1SG Tiffany Myrick

What was it like growing up and what led your path to the United States Army?

Tiffany: I don't know how everybody else grew up, but I would think that my upbringing was pretty normal. We had tough times, but I didn’t have any intention of joining the military. I planned to go to school and be some sort of medical doctor because that's what people are supposed to do, right (laughs)? I was in college for biology, but it wasn't working out too well. I had my daughter when I was 16 years old. With working and being a non-traditional student in my life circumstances, things didn't work out the way I planned or imagined. I remember I was at Norfolk State University, where I started my freshman year, and I saw a student in the student union building, which was a place where we would gather to do homework, play pool, and hang out.

She was in BDUs, she looked really good - her hair was done nicely, and her boots were shiny. I asked what she did, and she told me she was in ROTC. I had no idea what that even meant, but I thought she looked put together, so I asked her how I could do what she was doing. She told me to speak to her professor, but I ended up going to a recruiter instead (laughs). I went to the Armed Forces Center and originally planned to join the Marines. That was my plan because, in my mind, they were the toughest - like in the movie, Full Metal Jacket, the Marine Corps was it. But an Army recruiter snatched me up on my way to the Marine Corps recruiter's office, and here I am (laughs).

Were you excited to serve in the Army? 

Tiffany: I wasn't excited to join the Army but I signed up for a two-year contract anyways. So, the plan was to just get the G.I. Bill and get out. Two years was enough for me to get the partial G.I. Bill at the time… I think it was $20,000. I chose Military Police for the security clearance. Looks good on a resume, right? I didn't like the Army initially. It was just a big culture shock at first. You know, the yelling… and that kind of pressure just wasn't for me. It was supposed to be a short-term solution to a temporary problem. That was the initial plan.

What made you want to stay?

Tiffany: I ended up wanting to stick around for a few reasons. Initially, I didn't want to stay in Korea. My first duty station was in South Korea. Immediately after graduating from basic training, I was sent over there. On a two-year contract, I had to stay there and leave the military from Korea which gave me a few more months outside of the 12 months that I was assigned… or I could reenlist. They stood up another MP unit at Fort Eustis. That unit was deactivated after World War 2 and they reactivated at Fort Eustis. I'm from Norfolk so it made sense. “Hey, reenlist. Go home, don't stay in Korea.” That was the thought. So, that initial reenlistment was to get home and not stay in Korea any longer than I had to.

And how long was that reenlistment for?

Tiffany: I believe it was a three-year reenlistment. During that time there was a deployment. I think that's when I started realizing the Army could be a long-term plan. After returning from Korea, we deployed to Afghanistan eight months later. When you go over there and work with your team, your squad, you build those relationships and camaraderie. Even though it wasn't a great deployment, from a specialist's (E-4) point of view, it showed me that there's a lot more to being in the service.

It's about the other people you meet. Especially in a war zone, even if you came in for non-patriotic reasons, you naturally start developing that sense of patriotism. You realize that people are dying over there, and it becomes real. You start to figure out that you're there to fight for the people to your left and right. Even if you're not consciously thinking about fighting for your country, you're fighting for your brothers and sisters beside you. So, if anything were to happen, any time we were outside the wire or whatever we did, I was there for them.

Talk a little bit about what it was like to be a part of CST-2 and those initial groundbreaking stages.

Tiffany: I felt isolated from other women of that caliber. When it comes to physical fitness, the tenacity and aggressiveness I saw in myself were not common among the women I encountered throughout most of my life up until that point. There were a few who possessed those qualities, but not many. When I saw the flier to try out to be a part of the CSTs, I thought, “Oh, this is easy. I can do a 6-mile ruck march in 90 minutes…” I thought it was easy. I underestimated the challenges. I thought I was hot shit when I got there. And then we got to Assessment and Selection. I mean, I don't know how everybody else saw things, but I was sizing people up looking at them, like, “Oh yeah, I’ve got this...” But, it was honestly hard to tell what everyone else was made of. Once we began our Assessment and Selection, running, rucking, and going through the obstacle courses, I realized, “Damn, these women are strong.” I saw that my game wasn't on par with some of theirs. They were very fast.

Oh my gosh, it was something I had never seen. Two women who were also part of CST-2 ran their two miles in ten minutes or something like that. To me, that was amazing. It’s rare to ever see anything like that. The fastest I usually saw was maybe high elevens or low twelves even for men. So, seeing how fast they were rucking and running while I was struggling was almost unreal… I had to maintain a straight face. It was a really good experience being around these women who were not only physically fit but highly intelligent. They brought so much more to the playing field than what I originally thought the military had to offer. I remember thinking, “Man, I'm actually a part of this. These women are awesome.” So, that's where my idea of the military started changing. I was very proud to be with a group of women of that caliber.

So, how did you end up staying in for three more years? What made you decide to continue your service after that? Was it because you saw a glimpse of something meaningful during your deployment?

Tiffany: Every time I thought about reenlisting, I couldn't really see myself doing it because I was one of those, “I'm getting out after this,” types. But, yeah, for some reason it just didn't feel right leaving. I wasn't ready to get out. I also had all these senior personnel telling me about the potential they saw in me, and I started realizing that there was more to it. Sometimes, it's just your leaders who recognize your potential based on the experiences you've had together. I had a great time on my first deployment. It was similar to a FET (Female Engagement Team) deployment, but I don't think that program existed in 2005.

I was trained to assist a Marine Corps company in searching the women and children. We specifically trained for that mission. When we got to Afghanistan on that deployment, I recall going to Jalalabad, where I saw a different side of the country. Compared to Kandahar, Jalalabad was so green and beautiful. It provided me with a different perspective on the country and its people. I felt a desire to do more. So, when the time came for reenlistment, I realized that I could indeed do so much more. I already knew I could gain access to additional education and financial benefits. It became clear that staying in the military was the right choice.

When you finally got to teams did you reattach to a Special Forces Group?

Tiffany: During our train-up at Fort Bragg, we had to decide whether we wanted to be a part of VSO (Village Stability Operations), which was with Special Forces, or Direct Action, which was with the 75th Ranger Regiment. Towards the end of training, we could express our preferences, but ultimately, it was up to our cadre to determine the best fit. Both the 75th and Special Forces came in and conducted a brief. I remember being captivated by the Ranger’s brief. They had these awesome videos with flashing night vision, with rock music playing in the background.

I watched it and my jaw dropped a little just thinking, “Hell yeah, that's awesome!” The cadre noticed my immediate enthusiasm when they came in to give us the brief. I can't remember the first sergeant's name, but he spoke so highly of the 75th Ranger Regiment. I remember he was really welcoming, and said that anyone who wanted to be a part of their team should join their unit. I didn't feel the same vibes from the Special Forces cadre. Their brief wasn't as inspiring or welcoming. So, it was clear to me. I raised my hand right away, and said, “Direct action, that's what I want to do.” I didn't need to even think about it. “Put me on that team.” That's what I wanted to do, no doubt about it.

So, you ended up serving with the Rangers?

Tiffany: I actually ended up working with both the Rangers and SEALs. So when we arrived there in Afghanistan, they had a Ranger platoon and a SEAL team squadron. They were both part of Team "J bad." The way it worked was that the SEALs and Rangers would rotate nights on missions, and sometimes there were dual missions. So, my partner Drea and I would split up. One of us would go with the Rangers, and the other would go with the SEALs. Sometimes we would negotiate and decide who went where, and we would settle it with a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors or something similar (laughs). That way, we got to experience the best of both worlds.

What was it like going out on missions with the SEAL teams?

Tiffany: I definitely enjoyed going out on missions with the SEALs. The SEAL team was more mature, age-wise. You know, they were mostly petty officers first class and chief petty officers, which aligned with my rank as a staff sergeant. I felt like we had more in common in terms of our life experience and seniority. They were a good group to work with. When we arrived, Gold Squadron (DEVGRU/SEAL Team 6) was there. Unfortunately, they were stood down at the time because of the Extortion 17 incident. We got to Afghanistan on August 9th, and Extortion 17 happened on August 6th. So, by the time I joined the team, they were still dealing with the aftermath of that tragedy. They had such a strong bond as a team and they were obviously going through a lot emotionally because of such a devastating loss. I saw a different side of them, a very emotional side. I was careful with my words and actions. I didn’t want to say anything that could upset or offend anyone. I trod lightly and didn't want to talk too much about trivial things because they were dealing with something so significant.

There was a master chief petty officer on the team there who was very welcoming. I remember receiving the Navy digital kit. It was a little big so one of the guys cut it and sewed it down to size. I still remember his handlebar mustache and John Deere hat. He was sitting behind the sewing machine in their ready room and he did all he could to make sure my equipment fit properly. They also made sure I had the right ammo and weapons. They gave me an MP7 and that was smaller… a little lighter than what I’d been used to. They liked to move fast. With the Rangers, I wore my issued IOTV (Improvised Outer Tactical Vest). I was literally switching uniforms between missions since I was working with both the Navy and Army (laughs). They made sure for tactical cross-load reasons that we wore the same equipment.

Is there any one mission you remember well that stood out to you, maybe more than others?

Tiffany: I remember one particular mission with the Rangers which was a little later on in the deployment. It was an offset mission. With offset, we had to patrol a little further... I believe it was more than 1,000 clicks. I didn't think it was going to be that bad (laughs). However, we traversed a lot of ridge lines. It was so bad (laughs), rocks were loose everywhere. So when we would move up in elevation, it was so steep sometimes… and then I would slide back down. I had NODs on too, so my depth perception was off a little bit. I was tripping and falling and breathing heavily, my quads were burning so badly. I remember sitting there thinking, “Oh my gosh, this is it, I'm gonna fall out. If I fall out, I'm gonna ruin it for everybody.” This was my self-talk (laughs).

“They're never gonna want to take women out again,” and I can almost hear them saying, “See, this is why women shouldn't be on any missions... because of Tiffany.” (laughs) I was taking everything in mentally and talking down to myself. “See this? Why are you out here in Afghanistan? You could have been at home doing some regular MP stuff, but you had to go with Ranger Regiment...” (laughs) I couldn't tell if anybody else was struggling. I just know I had PELTORs on, so my breathing sounded extra loud. But, I remember after some of that negative self-talk just thinking, “Just keep going, keep going.” I would look at my partner. Drea was one of those sub-11 minute two-mile runners. And she was on West Point’s cross-country team. I remember thinking, “Oh, she's perfectly fine. You suck, Tiffany. Why are you here?” (laughs) And then, we stopped. We stopped because someone needed an IV and I remember thinking, “Thank You, Jesus.” (laughs)

I mean, it was so steep... my barrel was practically hitting the dirt. That's how vertical it was out there and being at a higher altitude made it that much tougher. I remember I walked up to Drea and asked, “Are you good?” She was like, “Yeah, I'm fine.” I said, “I knew you were. I'm over here fucking dying.” (laughs) We had to stop again because someone else needed an IV and I remember thinking, “Okay, we should almost be there by now.” Of course, we weren't and I thought I was going to die again (laughs). I was thinking, “Oh my gosh, I should have taken a longer break. I should have done this… I should’ve done that…” But then, the platoon sergeant got on the radio and he was breathing heavily. That's when I knew everybody else was sucking wind too. That was tough but in that moment, I realized I could keep up.

Did you love that deployment? 

Tiffany: That deployment was amazing for me and if I had it my way, I would have come home, spent time with my daughter, trained, and gone back. If I could do it again I would do that. I wanted that particular mission set badly. I didn't want to do anything else even though I think they didn't know what to do with us at the time. And of course, it was a pilot program. No one else was doing that. Actually with the SEALs since they moved in smaller numbers, I was asked to post security on a mission. It meant a lot that they trusted me enough on the team to do that work and carry ladders for them. That particular mission was for some of the callouts (detaining high-value targets without creating collateral damage). I felt like a real part of the team and you don't want to mess that up. I started to ask them more questions about mission planning. I was able to do a lot of training with those guys like ground assault force, helo (helicopter) assault force, and motorcycle assault force. It was an amazing mission to be a part of.

How much did that time as a CST, being with SEAL teams, and with Ranger Regiment, prepare you as a leader?

Tiffany: I learned a lot about leadership from the SEALs. Every opportunity is an opportunity to learn. I learned a lot about myself. I learned the value of people from different backgrounds. You have to learn how to lead them, you have to learn how to motivate them. When it sucks, you have to figure out how to keep your troops going. I watched those guys in how they handled themselves under pressure. When things got kinetic, who was doing what? Were they out of control? Was someone yelling, someone angry, screaming? Were they calm? What type of emotions did they display during those times? I was very impressed with how they handled themselves. It made me think about how to conduct myself in bad situations. You know, another mission that we went on with the SEAL teams that I recall... The sun was rising which was not good. Yeah, you don't want that to happen on a mission (laughs). I don't know all the details about how that came to be.

All I know is it wasn't good that the sun was coming up, and we could not establish the HLZ (Helicopter Landing Zone) at the time. It wasn't safe for us to get picked up. So I know they mentioned something like, “Hey, we might have to stay here tonight.” I was overthinking again, “How many Cliff bars do I have in my pocket? How’s my water situation? Are we going to sleep? How are we not going to be seen in the day?” I remember they were just as worried about the situation, but at the end of that day, they did establish the HLZ. It was one of the most amazing things that I've seen. One of the sniper teams made sure it was secure for the rest of us to move. Once it was, we patrolled a little bit and came up to a mountainous area. The JTAC (Joint Tactical Air Controller, Air Force) said something was two minutes out. And I remember saying, “What’s two minutes out?" He said, “F-15s.” I asked, “F-15s? Like... Air Force F-15s?” (laughs) Then, they told us, “One minute…” Again, we were given a countdown, and I heard the planes in the distance, and everybody took a knee. I was scanning the area, and I saw these F-15s coming in, and they were so low that I felt if I stood up, I could've touched them.

They came roaring in, and they shot off flares. It was the most amazing thing and then Apaches came… obviously it was a show of force. They fired munitions into the side of the mountain, at all of these… I don't know if they were goats but people were running because you could see the village area from where we were and they were definitely running. I tried to pick up one of the 30 Mike Mike rounds, but it burnt even through my glove. I wasn’t thinking because I was so in the moment (laughs). The Apache pilot was so close to us, I could see his mustache. Then the 160th (SOAR) came in and they did a wild hover movement and we all got in the back. I fell and banged my knee up but it didn’t matter because everyone was helping each other up. It felt like a movie. I think I was talking to our JTAC and I remember saying, “That was cool as fuck.” (laughs) I know it was dangerous. That mission could’ve definitely gone a different direction but that was really cool.

What do you love about an event like this? Obviously, it’s probably to be back together with all the other women. There are a lot of men here in support, too, including your husband. Why is an event like the event that AllTru is hosting so important here in D.C.?

Tiffany: An event like this (AllTru Gather at the Military Women’s Memorial) is an opportunity to bring us back together and it's inspiring, just being around this caliber of incredible women from CST-2 and throughout the whole group. I don't even know what the number is now as far as the CST teams but there's a lot of us now. So you know, the last ones that deployed in 2019... they're so young. Their experiences were a lot different than ours. I never got the opportunity to work with the Afghan FTPs (Female Tactical Platoon). So, just seeing them is amazing. Having that young sergeant speak that was inspired by the book “Ashley's War,” was awesome; and to just be here and see how much we mean to the military… it all means so much to us as women. We contribute so much to our country, to the military’s overall mission and we have a lot to bring to the table. So, to keep that going in inspiring the next generation is very important.

Are you ready to be in a place where you don't need to talk about it in terms of men and women? Maybe a place where they just talk about the mission overall… like how you're doing incredible things for the community, but it's because of the basis of the individual sole responsibility and everything you've done?

Tiffany: It's easy to say we shouldn't be talking specifically about males or females and our differences. But at the end of the day, it's just a part of society in which men and women are treated differently. That’s just how things are. “You did well... for a woman. You're strong… for a woman. You're this… for a woman. You’re that… for a woman.” I believe true leaders know that we should look at people as individuals not based on gender. So, you’re contributing to the team, you contribute to the mission because of who you are as a person. It’s not about being a male or female. It's about who you are, and what you are about. Your abilities, your courage, your patriotism, all of those things are what make up the individual and how they accomplish a mission. That’s not because of your gender.

I wanted you to talk about Ashley White because a lot of this is about legacy. Can you talk about her?

Tiffany: They had CST Selection for the Army Reserves and National Guard. And then they had active duty selection. So when Ashley (White) went through, she went through the selection process with the Reserves and National Guard. So I didn't meet her until we completed our training at Fort Bragg, our six-week training there before going out on our missions. And even then, initially, our interaction was kind of limited, because the classrooms were split up. But she was one of the 19 women selected for direct action missions. We all got to know each other while we were doing our PMT (Preparatory Mission Training) at Aberdeen Training Facility. I got to know her pretty well. She was so... quiet. I didn't have as close of a relationship to her as some of the other women did but she was just so nice and sweet and quiet. And I remember when they read all the names of those who were going to do direct action missions, they said her name, I was like, “What? (laughs) She wants to do this?”

You know, I didn't know everybody well, but again, we were all sizing each other up. “Who's aggressive, who's a shit talker? Who's gonna be a killer?” And she was just so sweet that I would never think she would commit to the direct action mission. I remember we had to climb a rope at some point in our training. I was not the best rope climber. I can climb a rope, but I was not that good at the time. I remember seeing her go up and climb that rope. It looked so easy. And no shit… I never told anybody this. I watched her technique and how she controlled her feet. I was in the regular army and they taught us the Russian Twist technique. I remember she did this funky thing with her feet that was different. It was like a J hook... I think that’s what they call it now. I remember how she hooked her feet and just kind of went up the rope effortlessly. I remember thinking, “Damn.”

So when I did it... my heart was beating because I was thinking, “I'm gonna look like shit compared to all these women who are climbing these ropes so easily,” and I went up without struggling at all just from watching her technique. All through training... I was sore. I was asking her a lot of questions because she was a MEDO (Medical Officer). She helped me out a lot. I always thought, “Man, she's just so cool and so sweet.” So… fast forward. While we were in Afghanistan, I ended up going to Kandahar because my unit was there and we had a little bit of downtime. The SEALs were ripping out (leaving the country). I was able to go to Kandahar to visit Ashley and her CST partner, Liz, where they were… but Ashley wasn't there. And I remember thinking, “Oh, well, I'll see her when I come back through Kandahar.” And because of the timeline, I never got to see her when I came back. 

One of the things that we did as a part of our training with the SEALs was they taught us how to fast rope. A few people got injured from fast roping, and not just CSTs. However, the Ranger Sergeant Major decided to make it a point that CSTs were not allowed to fast rope after that. However, Team J-Bad was not only going on missions with the Rangers but also went on missions with the SEALs. The SEALs taught us how to fast rope on their compound. So I remember they showed us how to go up the ladder, come back down, go up the ladder, and then fast rope down. After that, we did it live with helicopters. We went out on a mission after that training, and we couldn't land. We had to fast rope. Drea and I knew that we were told not to but we were with the SEALs (laughs). We glanced at each other and decided, “Let's do it. I'm not staying on this aircraft.” We fast-roped in so, I can say officially that we fast-roped in combat with the teams. When we got back to base our OIC (Officer in Charge), Laura, called us. 

I remember saying something like,  “Aw, man. Drea did you tell?” (laughs) I was thinking I was in trouble. And she said to me, “No, I didn't say anything...” I replied, “Man, somebody must have told... Why's Laura calling us?” We were thinking the phone call was for something completely different. And when we answered… Laura informs us that Ashley was killed. And I remember we just... our jaws dropped. I'm over here thinking selfishly about fast roping and Ashley just lost her life. You know... it was... I think at that moment, that's when the deployment got real for me. Ashley was just so sweet, just a great person. And… for her to die out there... and I'm not saying anybody's life is worth more but just that thought of someone who was just so young and genuine, you know? Yeah... I started to think about every mission out there. “Is this my last?” Because… we don't ever really know.

I'm sure she didn't go out there thinking that she would step on an IED. You know... it was tough. Her death bonded our team closer together. It definitely did because you know, ever since then our reunions... her parents come out and they're the sweetest people. We went to their house in Ohio to honor her and we went to her grave site. The Whites are amazing people. It's no wonder that Ashley was so sweet. She came from good stock. That was something... that changed my life... my perspective on everything. I’m proud. I'm extremely proud of her and what she did for us. Ashley’s sacrifice is what got eyes on the program. Because, you know, some people didn't take it as seriously as they should've. To them, we were probably just doing something women shouldn’t be doing. But the reality of it was that it was extremely dangerous. And honestly, I didn't think about my life or losing my life, at any point… until that moment when Ashley lost her life.

LTC ANNIE KLEIMAN

Can you talk to me about what a CST is because, you know, we have civilian readers and they're going to want to know a little bit about what that means?

Annie: So the CST program was started in response to the need to be able to talk to women and children in Afghanistan during missions. These are highly kinetic, elite special operations teams that realized that they were not getting information from part of the population. Women can hide stuff, they can hide weapons, they can hide information, and they often know a lot about what's going on in the village. And, at the time, we weren't able to access that population. You can't have a big, tall dude fully kitted out walking around the house at two in the morning trying to talk to a woman and calm her down while getting useful information. So the CSTs were sort of the resolution to that problem. At the time that the program was started, the ground combat ban was still in effect. So we were not officially assigned to any of the units we were attached to. I think when most of us started with the program, didn’t understand what it was we were going to be doing. The way they kind of talked about it was, “Oh, you're going to be with a platoon leader. You're going to be with a leadership element. You're not going to be out front with the door kickers.”

What we had in our head, I think, was that the main mission would kind of happen and then they would bring us in after everything was secure, quote-unquote, which... having been on those missions... that seems just absolutely ridiculous, right? You're not going to fly out a bunch of women on a helicopter halfway through the mission (laughs). But that was how it was kind of talked about. I think that was the intention. It wasn't until we were starting to figure out whether we would be on the Village Stability Operations side, or the direct action side, that a bunch of Rangers came in and tried to convince us to pick the direct action side. They started showing us pictures, cool videos that they had put together, and we realized, “Oh, we're going out on missions, we're riding in the same helicopters, we're walking the same routes, and we are going to be with the guys.” Yeah, so basically, it was a means of embedding women service members with these special operations teams to then give them the capability to interact with the women and children on target.

Can you talk to me about what a CST is because, you know, we have civilian readers and they're going to want to know a little bit about what that is.

Annie: So the CST program was started in response to the need to be able to talk to women and children in Afghanistan during missions. These are highly kinetic, elite Special Operations teams that realized that they were not getting information from part of the population. Women can hide stuff, they can hide weapons, they can hide derogatory information, and they often know a lot about what's going on in the village. And, at the time, we weren't able to access that population. You can't really have a big, tall dude fully kitted out walking around the house at two in the morning trying to talk to a woman and calm her down while getting useful information. So the CSTs were sort of the resolution to that problem. At the time that the program was started, the ground combat ban was still in effect. So we were not officially assigned to any of the units we were attached to. I think when most of us started with the program, did not understand what we were actually going to be doing. The way command kind of talked about it was, “Oh, you're going to be with a platoon leader. You're going to be with a leadership element. You're not going to be out front with the door kickers.”

What we had in our head, I think, was that the main mission would kind of happen and then they would bring us in after everything was secure, quote-unquote, which... having been on those missions... that seems just absolutely ridiculous, right? You're not going to fly out a bunch of women on a helicopter halfway through the mission (laughs). That was how it was kind of talked about and I think that was the original intention. It wasn't until we were starting to figure out whether we would be on the village stability operations side, or the direct action side, that a bunch of Rangers came in and tried to convince us to pick the direct action side. They started showing us pictures, cool videos that they had put together, and then we realized, “Oh, we're going out on the same missions, we're riding in the same helicopters, we're patrolling the same routes, and we’re going to be actually working with the guys.” It was a means of embedding women service members with these special operations teams to then give them the capability to interact with the women and children on target.

Did you enjoy your first time out with the teams?

Annie: Yeah, so my first mission was a shitshow (laughs). They tried to prepare us. We did the ruck marches and everything else to prepare. They were forcing us to learn pretty quickly. But, I remember my very first mission, I didn't eat dinner because I was really nervous... which was a mistake. I didn't pack any snacks, which was a mistake. I didn't carry enough water. I think every single thing that I could have done wrong, I did wrong. My NODs were fogging up so I literally could not see anything. I remember we were walking through some farmer's field. There were ditches every couple of feet, and I remember falling into some ditch. I picked myself back up and I could see other members of the strike force walking past me as I was falling.

And at one point, I remember thinking, “I’m going to be left out in the middle of Afghanistan. On my first mission, I'm going to die.” Somebody... I have no idea who it was to this day, walks by and said something to the effect of, “What is going on with you?” I was like, “I can't see anything. My goggles are fogging up.” He replied, “Take off your safety glasses...” I’d been wearing eye protection under my NODs. And I said something like, “What? I thought we're supposed to keep these on for safety.” And he said, “Nobody wears those except for getting on and off the helicopter... take them off.” And lo and behold, no more fogging (laughs). And… everything was fine.

How did the rest of that mission end up going?

Annie: It was actually still a pretty big shitshow after that. We ended up with the largest group of women and children I saw my entire deployment. There were probably 30 to 40 of them altogether. We happened to have three CSTs on the mission, which was not normal. It's usually just one. But, we were doing a changeover. Just as soon as we got on target we started searching the women and trying to talk to them. It was a weird compound and every once in a while goats would run through the compound as we were trying to figure out what was going on. Yeah… it was a pretty crazy mission. It got better after that (laughs).

Talk about one of the biggest differences you felt you made as a CST being over there. You had to have seen some pretty incredible things, including training the Female Tactical Platoons. What was the biggest difference maker for you over there where you really felt like you had a profound effect on that mission?

Annie: I think it took 10 or 11 years to come full circle. And I really think it's what we did with the FTPs (Afghan Female Tactical Platoon). At the time, the training mission wasn't one that was highly sought after and we all wanted to be going out on missions with the guys. We didn't want to be stuck doing a training mission and we didn't really understand the FTP program. There was so much controversy even with us female service members in ground combat and on SOF (Special Operations Forces) teams, and then you're trying to put Afghan women in who are trying to do the same jobs. It just seemed kind of crazy. But, I ended up on the training mission for about three months because I was one of the more senior captains, and they were kind of just rotating through captains to give everybody a chance to do the direct action missions while still covering down on the training mission. And, I remember at the time I enjoyed it. I thought it was interesting getting to work with those women. I learned a lot about cross-cultural interactions. And then, it just sort of sat in the back of my head for several years until last year when we started to hear about the gains that the Taliban were making. It seemed like things were going to go downhill very quickly.

We’d talked about this ever since we had first trained those women. We all said, “When the U.S. pulls out, they're going to be in a world of hurt, right? They're going to be in pain when the Taliban starts going after them. There are neighbors that think that they're prostitutes, because they leave early in the morning, and they come home late at night. They've got a target on their back from all angles.” Being able to come together with a bunch of CSTs, you know, some who I still only know from a screen name on Signal (encrypted texting application), and just start working these issues and getting these FTPs out was a huge task. When we first started, I think we had about 20 FTPs that were on our list that we were trying to get out of Afghanistan.

I remember the initial conversations were, “Hey, I don't think this is going to happen. There's no sort of good legal pathway for them to get out. They're not eligible for the Special Immigrant Visa. I think we should try that but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.” Then, going from there to getting our first group out. Our second group was mostly out, and then we had a third group... and there are 27 FTPs in Afghanistan (2022), but we've managed to get over 40 of them and 90 plus family members out. We were successful beyond our wildest dreams. That's something I tried to keep in mind even as we're still working with 27 left in the country. Even though it's tough because we feel like we left them behind, we did get over 40 of them out. They're here in the U.S., most of them. They've got families, they've got children, they're building these whole new lives for themselves and that’s really awesome.

That has to be hugely fulfilling.

Annie: It's great to actually see the FTPs and give them big hugs. When we were first working on this back in August last year (2021), I kept saying, “I need to actually hug an FTP because I don't believe this is all real... like some fat guy in a basement is just typing ‘Signal’ messages to me (laughs). This is all like one giant simulation.” To actually see them and to see them in a place where it’s like, “Hey, last time I saw you, it was 10 years ago, and I was making you do push-ups, and you were in a kit (body armor). Now you're here in America, starting your new lives.” That's really exciting.

Do you hear some of the stories from over there about the 27 remaining in Afghanistan and is that rough to hear about?

Annie: I don't think the remaining FTPs are safe. You know, the hard reality is that I think most of them are in hiding and they’re not working. Women aren't able to have jobs over there. I think most of them are in fear for their lives trying to hide from the Taliban, some of them have moved from multiple locations and many of them have had their family member’s homes get searched and destroyed by the Taliban. On top of that, there's severe economic deprivation. A lot of them are basically starving due to that and as I mentioned before, they can't work. If they're married, their husbands probably can't work either because they’re more than likely Afghan military members. They're not doing well over there.

You have to feel pretty awesome about the 13 (FTPs) that have come home. So, as you move forward in your career, what do you enjoy? Did you enjoy it more when you were lower ranking when you first came into the position as a CST? Because most people I hear about once they reach a certain rank, say something to the effect of, “I just miss being on the ground.” Do you miss that?

Annie: Without a doubt, my CST deployment was the highlight of my military career. That's pretty hard to top. Seeing the FTPs come over here to the United States. That's pretty awesome, too. But yeah, I mean, I do miss it. I miss just sort of having that sense of purpose. It was obvious what my job was, my mission was, and to know if I did a good job, if I kept up with the guys, and I searched all the women and children and if I found something cool, or I learned about a cool piece of Intel, then that was a really good mission. Those are really easy, clear markers to hit whereas now, you know, things are a little bit fuzzier. But I do think that at some point, you have to make that decision. Do you want to keep doing the fun tactical stuff for personal enjoyment? Or, do you want to be in a position where you can really affect change? I think the things that really change people’s lives are at the policy level, unfortunately, and that's the boring desk job.

Were you most fearful on that first mission? Was that probably when you were the most nervous about how it would go? Like, I don't know what my future is gonna look like on one of these teams? What are we doing out here? What's going on? I can't see past my goggles.

Annie: I think the first mission was when I had the most doubt about whether I could personally hack it. I thought I was prepared. I thought I was ready to go. And just everything about that first mission was pretty terrible. I think it was my first interpreter, an Afghan American… we didn't have to evacuate him. Thank goodness, he was already in the U.S. But, he offered me a juice box because it looked like I was just doing so badly. I was like, “Wait, why are you taking care of me? I'm supposed to be taking care of you.” So, I think the first mission was when I felt that gut check of, “I don't know if I can really hack this. I’ve gotta do nine more months of this?” There was one other mission where we completed the mission, we were waiting for exfil… the helicopter was coming in to pick us up. And it had a hard landing and basically toppled over and caught on fire. I thought my platoon leader had died because he was ahead of me running towards the helicopter. So, that was nerve racking in terms of just literally not knowing what was going to happen for the next several hours.

How tough was learning the language and learning the culture as you were getting into it? Was that tough for you?

Annie: So as CSTs, we maybe got a couple of hours of language training. We weren't really expected to have any level of proficiency. We definitely had our interpreter with us, which was kind of funny because he was from Kandahar, so he had a certain accent that was native to that area. We were working in Wardak and Logar provinces, so that was a whole other thing with him being from a different area. I knew about 10 seconds of Pashto where I could say, “Hey, I'm an American woman. I'm trying to keep you safe. I need you to do what I tell you to do.” That was about it on the language side. What was interesting is that it's not just one culture we had to learn, right? It's not just Afghan culture, it was the special operations culture, the Ranger culture. So we kind of joked that we needed to learn culture to work within our own team, and then we needed to learn the culture to be able to work on target in Afghanistan. And sometimes, it was easier being on target in Afghanistan (laughs).

How do you feel the acceptance was as far as guys taking you in and under their wing?

Annie: I was personally very lucky, and I think our CST team was as well. We were CST-3, which was the third rotation of our teams, but the second rotation was all volunteer, and our rotation owes a huge debt of gratitude to CST-2. They were the ones who paved the way for us. By the time we got to the teams, the guys were saying, “Oh yeah, I've worked with the CSTs. They did well. We trust you.” It was ours to mess up. “I'm going to take you on a mission, put you on a helicopter, as long as you do what she did before you, you're going to do great.”

That was the attitude. So, CST-2 really paved the way for us, and that was awesome. The leadership within the Ranger platoons I was embedded with was fantastic. I was there as a captain, so I outranked the platoon leader and the platoon sergeant, but there were never any issues. I was a member of the team, a CST, taking direction from the platoon sergeant, the squad leader, or whoever knew better than me. They knew what was going on and made sure I got to where I needed to be. I had outstanding first sergeants, and all the local leadership was very supportive. They did try to put me in the dog suit so I could experience protection and bite work, but I politely declined that particular offer. I didn't need to be one of the guys that much (laughs).

What do you think it is about events like this? Bringing all the women together? Honoring the memory of Shannon Kent. And what is it about this type of event that's so special, in bringing all you ladies together, and recognizing the tremendous contributions of CSTs to our military?

Annie: So, I think one of the great things about reunions is everybody speaks the same language, right? There's no need to go through the basic elevator pitch of explaining what program you were in. Even if we've never met each other or don't know each other's names, we all have a basic starting point of being CSTs or FTPs, or at least knowing what those programs are about. As a result, we can have much more substantial conversations than just initial superficial ones. For many CSTs, there's still this cognitive dissonance where we served alongside Rangers, SEALs, and Green Berets, yet we hesitate to stand up and say, “Yeah, I'm a combat veteran.” Having that validation and hearing it from other people is great. It's like saying, “Yes, I served in combat. My service is just as legitimate as a Ranger or a SEAL.” I remember speaking to a Women's Peace and Security Class at Georgetown and saying, “I don't know if I'm a combat veteran. That's weird. My nightmare would be for me to say that and then have a Ranger say, 'I was on that team. What you did wasn't combat.'" One woman in the class raised her hand and said, “You were on a mission where there was a flaming helicopter. And you're telling me you're not sure if you were in combat?” And I was like, “Okay, yeah, that's a good point.” (laughs)

Learning about the history of CSTs has been incredible. What does that history mean to you?

Annie: So, there's the legacy of how our work affected individual lives, as well as the larger institutional impact we had. On the one hand, as you mentioned, hopefully, what we did helped save lives. Obviously, that's something you can't necessarily measure or have a counterfactual for, but hopefully, we contributed. Some soldiers were able to come home when they might have been injured, or worse, if we hadn't been there. So, thinking about the "what if" scenarios is kind of interesting. On an institutional level, the success of the CSTs and the hundreds of women who went through the program helped push for the repeal of the ground combat ban. I would love our legacy to be similar to what the WAACs (Women's Army Auxiliary Corps), WAVES (Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service), and WASPs (Women Air Force Service Pilots) did for women in the military.

SGM Eve Mayoral

So you're from South Central L.A. Can you talk about what happened growing up to make you want to live this life and do what you do now?

Eve: I grew up in South Central Los Angeles, a city filled with gang crime. Lots of drugs. Most people remember it because of the LA riots. So, you know, just growing up in a big city riddled with gangs, a lot of violence, and drugs, I just wanted something different for myself. I'm a first-generation Mexican American, and my parents are immigrants. They both became citizens at one point, but financially, we just didn't have the money for me to go to school. Initially, I never planned to join the Army for college, and I didn't even know the Army provided money for college. I just wanted to graduate from high school, and since they couldn't afford college for me, even though I got accepted, and I was an Honor Roll student who had taken AP classes and graduated with a 3.8, I had to make a decision.

At the time, my thought process was that if I didn't leave when I graduated, I would just be another product of my environment. So, I made the decision to join the army. Initially, I was going to just join for three years and then go back and become a police officer, because, at the time, I had been in what's called the LAPD cadets or explorers. Most people didn't know I had been doing that program for about three years. I think that program really set the stage for me to be successful in the military, and I never left. So, here I am, 20 years later.

20 years. So you joined in 2002? The early part of the war. Post 9/11. Were you scared at all? 

Eve: You know, I think a lot about being scared about joining in the early part of the war. A lot of people have asked me that. But I think at the time, mentally, I didn't know what was happening, right? I mean, I knew that the United States was under attack, and I knew that we had adversaries, and I knew that the United States was going to counter our adversaries. But I don't think I had mentally processed all of what that entailed. I didn't see that it would lead to 15-plus years of war.

What about your background prepared you to join the Army?

Eve: I think my mom cultivated that hard work ethic in us. I've always been a hard worker. I always try to lead with a lot of empathy. I get criticized for that sometimes. But, it's those messages I get from my soldiers thanking me for being there for them… and even giving them the hard truth. That’s what really matters to me. All the awards and evaluations don't mean all that much.

Now you're in a Sergeant Major role. That's obviously a position of supreme leadership. Do you think your soldiers feel open to coming to you? 

Eve: I've always had an open-door policy. I mean, not just with my soldiers, but also with my peers. I try to do for my leaders what I ask of my soldiers, and when I need help, I try to ask for it. I know it's something I had a really hard time with when I was a younger NCO. I was very driven, having grown up in the 82nd with a hard-charging, yelling-at-people approach. But over time, my leadership style has changed. You don't have to force people to do things; they should want to do it because they feel that you care.

Were you excited about the CST program coming into being?

Eve: I really was excited about the CST program. I was actually deployed to Afghanistan when I applied to it. That was my fourth tour. I have five total with three to Iraq and two to Afghanistan. They were all very different. One was with the 82nd Airborne. The second one was with the Joint Special Operations Command which was really my first exposure to Special Operations. And then the third one was with the 40th Engineers out of Germany. Concurrently, I did a second deployment with the engineers. My last deployment was with the CSTs.

What do you think had the most significant impact on CST mission?

Eve: Working collectively as a team is what had the most significant impact on our overall mission. “You can do some phenomenal things individually, but they'll never reach their full potential unless you do them collectively.” (Kobe Bryant, 2018) The Special Forces and SEAL Teams we supported, integrated my CST team into the missions and allowed us to use our skillsets, which expanded beyond culture to maximize our operational capability.

We helped the women and children daily, but the effects expanded beyond that and positively impacted the men in Afghanistan. My CST team established a weekly women's clinic, providing essential services to more than 500 women, children, and men in our district. We provided school supplies, food, clothes, and educational classes on water. That expanded into personal hygiene, midwife procedures, early childhood care, managing livestock, and creating sustainable capability within the local populace. We were able to save the lives of countless men, women, and children brought to our platform; who’d incurred injuries ranging from IEDs to gunshot wounds, pressure cookers blowing up in their faces, and even overdoses.

Who do you remember most?

Eve: The last person we lost was Chief Petty Officer Mike Pike, who was assigned to Seal Team Five. I wasn't on that mission when he passed away. But it was very hard when the SEALs called us to let us know that Mike was gone. Obviously, they knew we were part of the team, and they invited us to his memorial ceremony at Camp Brown. We stood in line with them, gave him his last salute, and hopefully, we continue to memorialize him. And hopefully, he's proud of us. It's really hard when you lose someone, it's never easy, no matter what. I mean that within your family, friends, deployed, or not deployed. I think it gives you an appreciation for life and makes you remember everything you do should be for them and for yourself as well. Be the best version of yourself and absolutely never slack off.

What was the pipeline like to get into the CSTs?

Eve: Physically, the pipeline was very demanding in Assessment and Selection, but I felt that I had prepared myself as much as I could. Of course, you’re always sleep deprived. The second phase was really where everything came together for me. We had medical and range training, a stress test, and a longer ruck. Bringing in more women always brings a different dynamic. But, I didn't see it as that difficult. It was challenging, but as I said before, I felt I had prepared well. When I deployed as a CST, I was on the commando mission, where we conducted direct action missions with Seal Team Five Tactical Platoon Three. About midway through that tour, I was attached to a VSP, which stands for Village Stability Platform, in Ghorak, southern Afghanistan. I was attached to two teams there, 7112 and 7425 of 7th Special Forces Group.

Was there a difference between serving with SEALs and other special operations teams?

Eve: I think serving with the SEALs, was slightly easier than with other special operations units because we were coming in behind another CST team. So, we didn't have much difficulty there. Obviously, we still had to show them that we were capable of performing, both on and off the objective. The Special Forces teams were a little hesitant at first, but they were the ones who requested us, so we overcame those challenges. Most of the special operators I worked with are like my brothers, and I still talk to them today. Whenever I'm having a difficult time understanding something, I reach out to them, and they give me great advice. We've become a family in many ways and I think a lot of that comes from the professionalism that we displayed while serving alongside them.

What was it like being embedded with a SEAL team? 

Eve: Well, it's a great opportunity, right? Not many females, let alone enablers, get to work with the SEALs. It was great. I mean, they went in and did most of the hard stuff. We came in behind them. We tactically questioned the women and children after searching them. Sometimes we would find things on them, other times, we just provided additional information for different personalities that we were looking for and that helped us determine if there were any nefarious activities ongoing.

What do you feel was your greatest impact in being over there? What do you think had the most significant impact on the overall mission?

Eve: I was privileged to be a part of two different mission sets. So with the commando mission, it was just very impactful when we knew what we were looking for and found it. That was awesome because there came to be an understanding that if we hadn’t been able to search the women and children, those missions would not have been nearly as successful.

You said your leadership style has changed now that you're a sergeant major. You said you have that open-door policy with soldiers. Is it easy to express that to them?

Eve: I try to get to know my soldiers on a personal level. I’m not the type to sit down with them and just counsel them through the paperwork. I prefer to take them out to lunch, go for a ruck or a run with them, and have casual conversations about their families or their interests. I think it's important to break down that barrier and let them know that I see them as individuals, not just subordinates.

You see all these incredibly capable women around you their strength evident every single day, you're here, and every single day that you've worked with them. Why do you think events like this are so important and why is it something that you wanted to attend?

Eve: I think events like this one (AllTru Gather at the Military Women’s Memorial) are important because as women veterans, our stories can often be overlooked or forgotten. Many people look at me and say, "I didn't even think you were a soldier. You don't look like one." But what is a soldier supposed to look like, right? I believe it's crucial for us to have camaraderie, to support each other, to help each other through difficult times, and to know that we have people we can turn to. We also need to celebrate ourselves. If we don't, who will?

What do your children mean to you, and what's your most significant goal in raising them?

Eve: My children are the most important part of my life; no words can express what they mean to me thoroughly. Being their mother is the most vital role I've held to date. My goals in raising are simple- to be compassionate, respectful, loving, ambitious, fearless, educated, passionate, and be themselves. I want to grant my children all the opportunities I did not have as an underprivileged youth from Los Angeles.

How do you want people to look back at you and what you've done and accomplished, you have a little beautiful daughter, who's going to be thinking one day about what mom did, and she's going to know her mom's history, I'm sure at some point? You've done something that's pretty awesome. So why is legacy so important to you?

Eve: Legacy. How did I challenge others to be better? How did I challenge others to love? How did I challenge others to get outside of their comfort zone? How did I motivate others? How did I impact those around me to drive change? That’s what legacy means to me. It's not about what I accomplished in my military career or personal life but how I impacted the lives of others- family, friends, loved ones, Soldiers, and strangers. That’s a true legacy.

I want to be remembered as someone who challenged not only the military and accepting women in different roles but also challenged herself to do something above and beyond, something that's more important than me, something that's going to affect generations after me and others in the military. It's important because as we sit here the military is around 80% men, and women get diminished a lot. Some men see us as objects, and some men see us as not bringing anything to the table. A lot of times, we have to work twice as hard. And we shouldn't, we shouldn't have to work twice as hard just because we're females, right? I earned a place at the table just as much as my peers have. I think it's just important to remove that stigma.

What are you most fearful of in leaving the military?

Eve: You know, there are some fears about leaving the Army. But for whatever reason, as a woman of faith, I’ve felt very comfortable thinking about it. I'm in the mindset of the fact that I will be retiring in two to three years. It doesn't stop there for me, though. I have to find a way to be successful because as a single parent of two children, I don't have an option. So ideally, my plan is to go to school for a year and work on my Master's in Applied Behavior Analysis. I have some skills from the military that I believe will set me up for success. I think some people have a hard time letting go of the uniform, but I don't think I'm going to have a hard time with that. I'm more than a soldier. I'm a mom, I'm a sister, a student. I'm in school right now. I actually really like photography as well. There are some fears about how life will go. But, I think I've set myself up for success financially and mentally. I'm sure there are going to be times when I miss the Army. But, I know I can always reach back to those that have impacted me and hopefully help them in many ways as well.

To learn more about Annie Kleiman and the causes that are important to her check out www.nooneleft.org and follow her on LinkedIn. You can follow Tiffany Myrick on LinkedIn as well. Episode 48 of The Veterans Project Podcast with Tiffany, Annie, and Eve will premier next week at www.thevetsproject.com/podcast and on every major platform.

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