There’s an allure to this process and getting to know every individual as they are, in that very moment in their lives. Chris Thompson is one of the more selfless individuals I’ve come to know. I feel confident in saying that even though I’ve only spent a few months in his circle. The grace he shows in his speech, the pleasant patience, and his thoughtfulness when he looks for deeper meaning in his discussions. Let’s not forget the man deployed to some of the most dangerous spaces in the world, a surgical instrument of death utilized by the most elite military force our world has ever seen. The elite of the elite.

You’ve heard the speech. You’ve probably seen the John Wayne poster. But, the poster isn’t the goal of this project. This isn't a recruiting pitch for the Green Berets or even the United States Army. This is the story of a man who loves his family undeniably, who puts his friends above himself in the heat of battle, and who is constantly striving to learn. I don’t think Chris cares much what people think about his service. He loves his country through all its flaws (and there are many) but his higher sight is set on creating a cultural shift. A movement set under the auspices of perpetual gratitude. I’ve talked about that a lot with this work. Transition, movement, purpose… legacy. What does it mean? How does it impact you? I made the drive to Galveston, Texas to find out how it impacts Chris. The man I met became a brother.

What brought you to this point?

Chris: That’s tough to answer as even 10 years ago, I would have said that it feels like I've lived multiple different lifetimes, in a single life. I've been able to experience so much and have lived and continue to live a very full life. It's hard to condense that down into something brief. I will, however, start with adult life.

I first joined the Army Reserves right out of high school. It was kind of strange, because growing up, I was always the guy that said, “I will never join the military.” I don't think that I could articulate this about myself back then, but I’m the type of person who needs lots of freedom. Even as an 18-year-old, I knew I needed a lot of flexibility in life. And maybe in my mind, I was thinking that the military was going to be the opposite of that.

Initially, I joined the Army Reserves as a mechanic and when I signed up I knew nothing about the Army. This was before 9/11 and my thoughts at the time were, “The worst-case scenario is that this will teach me a little bit of discipline, which I sorely needed at that time, for sure.” And then the other was, “I would learn a skill that I could apply outside of the military.” Those were my thoughts when I joined. I would then leave for basic training, and again, I had no idea what I was getting myself into or really what the Army was. But by the second week in basic training, somehow I knew the Army was where I belonged. I knew that’s what I wanted to do. I didn’t want to do the Reserves anymore. I wanted to go on active duty.

I had one really good drill sergeant, in particular, who was an infantry guy and just did a lot to individually mentor a couple of us soldiers. That guy taught me a whole lot… lessons that I still apply today. He really encouraged me in the direction that I wanted to go. So, I came back from basic training, and Advanced Individual Training as a mechanic, and I was dead set on going on active duty. Now knowing a little more about the Army, I wanted to reclass infantry. I knew I wanted to be in combat arms. There were a couple of infantry units that I really wanted to go to, all of which I heard about from my favorite drill sergeant. Later a friend of mine told me about Ranger Regiment. He was in 3rd Ranger Battalion at the time and I thought, “Okay, that's, we're where I need to be.”

I went to my recruiter, the same one that got me into the Army Reserves. I told him, “I really want to go on active duty. I want to go infantry.” And he was like, “No, no, you don't. Don't do that.” (laughs) And I replied, “No, I do.” And he said, “No, you're accepted into a good school…” I was accepted into Texas A&M. And he said, “You just need to do that and go to school.” Again, this was before 911. There wasn’t much urgency. I said, “No, I'm serious, I want to do this.” And he said back to me, “Well, it doesn't matter, because you have to wait at least six months, then after that six months, it's dependent upon your Reserve unit signing that they'll release you from the Reserves so that you can sign a contract to go active duty.” It was a whole process to get released from the Reserves. Ultimately, I signed a contract to go on active duty and reclass to infantry. So, I went infantry and then straight into Airborne training. Right after that, I went to Special Forces Assessment and Selection, then started the Special Forces Qualification Course, and then spent the rest of my time on active duty in 3rd Special Forces Group.

During the process of going on active duty, there was a part of me that was driven to join. But, there was a moment when I put going active duty on pause. While I was waiting the mandatory six months before my Reserve unit could release me to go active duty, 9/11 happened. I had drill with my Reserve unit just a few days after that. I remember there was an E-7 that I’d never seen before, who was just barking orders, and everybody was moving with an extreme sense of urgency. He told us, “Hey, we are going to war, everyone needs to get all of their stuff ready, have a bag ready to go…” I remember thinking, “Okay, this is great. I don't have to worry about going on active duty. I'm getting ready to go to combat and I'm going to deploy. Looking back on it now it’s crazy in a way because I knew nothing. I knew nothing about combat. I was not going to win the war (laughs). I thought I was at the time. Even though deploying felt imminent at that time, the Reserve unit I was in wouldn’t deploy for another several years. After waiting a few months, and nothing happening, I was back on track with my path to go active duty. By the time that Reserve unit did deploy, I would already be in 3rd Special Forces Group.

You talked about the dynamics of combat, not understanding what you were getting into. What was that like? You got to 3rd Special Forces Group. Was it what you thought it would be? What changed your perception of that?

Chris: Some of the things that I thought about when I thought about war at that time, I think weren't too far off. You know that there's killing involved and there's loss of life. You know, looking back on it now, one of the things that I do know that I was off, in my thinking was, that I did not realize how great the love is that you can experience, which sounds so backward from what you would think. But when guys are risking their lives, putting themselves at risk for the safety of their other teammates… It’s one of the greatest loves that we can experience on Earth. I had no idea that existed. One thing I’d never thought about war is that there's a deep, deep love experienced. Another aspect that I didn't know when I was really young was the extremes of emotions. There’s that feeling of the greatest love, but also a great horror. I’d felt those feelings before but not to that level of intensity. How I’ve described it in the past is that imagine the most afraid you’ve ever been. The greatest horror you’ve ever experienced. Now multiply that by 100. I didn't think we could have feelings that extreme and I wasn't anticipating that.

You might not think this, but I see all of this as more of a positive than anything. But I had no idea that that was something that I would experience. When I made the comment about knowing nothing about combat when I was new in the Reserves, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I thought I knew enough to be really effective. I didn’t know shit. I didn’t know a lot about small unit tactics, weapons manipulation, or even the very basics. I knew nothing about room clearing or handling detainees. Shooting for me was just… it was almost like being an infant. After going through the Q-Course, then being on a team at 3rd Group and receiving all this training and experience, I felt like I was truly prepared for war.

Another thing that I wasn’t expecting is that being on a team was better than what I could have expected. The guys, when I first got there, were extremely professional with lots of experience. All of them had combat experience. Prior to coming to 3rd Group, a lot of them had served in other units, had combat jump wings, and had just a ton of experience. I remember when I got to 3rd Group I first met with the Battalion Sergeant Major. I talked with him for a little bit, and he walked me down to the Company that I was being assigned to. As this Battalion Sergeant Major was walking me down to the Company, he said, “All the teams in this company have just gotten back from a deployment.

They’re not deploying again for a few months, but there is one team that's getting ready to deploy again, and it's our best team in the Battalion. But don't worry about them, because you're not going to that team.” And sure enough, that was the team that I ended up getting assigned to (laughs). Less than two weeks later I would be on my first deployment. I learned so much from those guys. One of those guys in particular on the team… made a huge impact on my life. I often say that when I completed Robin Sage (a phase in the Special Forces Qualification Course) I had earned my Green Beret. But this guy taught me how to be a Green Beret. He shaped me into the team member that I would be and the person that I am today. Those were some of the best leaders I've ever had. My teammates throughout were just phenomenal.

That's awesome. When you finally got thrown into the fire, it's a little bit different, isn't it? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Chris: I felt like the training that I had was so great. If you're put in a really stressful environment you need your body to react, and you need to be able to do things without spending a whole lot of time thinking about them. A lot of that was through repetition. We would take tons and tons of reps on the littlest things. It might be a magazine change, or calling for a medevac. We put lots of reps into all the things that you would need to do in combat. Many of those things became automatic. And, so that served me really well.

On my first deployment to Afghanistan… we were a little, in some ways… kind of surprised. Our Chief Warrant Officer (CWO) on the team and I were on the advanced party to go to Afghanistan. Which meant just the two of us from the team would go to Afghanistan while the rest of the team was back in the States. Our job was to go out to the Firebase and meet with a team that we were going to be relieving. We were going to meet with them so we could start understanding what the situation was on the ground so we could let our teammates know back in the States, “Hey at the Firebase, they don't have this or we have enough of these kinds of weapons but not enough of these…” And so it helped once everyone else came over.

When our CWO and I landed in Bagram, Afghanistan, that same day, a different Special Forces team hit an IED near the Firebase that I would be going to. Two of those guys would die there at the site of the blast. A third was flown to Germany and later died in Germany. And so I had the thought of, “Okay, this is real.” These guys were right outside the Firebase and got blown up. They were a very short period away from being able to come home, and suddenly they weren’t. Bagram was one of the places that people would fly into before going elsewhere in Afghanistan. When it was time to go back to the States, Bagram was also where a lot of people would leave from at that time as well. So the bodies of these guys were brought back to Bagram. I remember them doing the ramp side ceremony (Fallen Soldier Ceremony), while we were still waiting to go down to the Firebase. And said, “This is real.”

Our CWO and I would soon get on a helicopter that would be dropping us and other small elements of Special Forces soldiers off at different Firebases. These other SF soldiers with us were part of an advanced party for their teams who were back in the States just like I was. My Firebase was one of the first stops where I would get off and the HELOs would continue dropping the rest of its crew off at different locations. On the aircraft’s next stop, as soon as guys were getting off, they started taking indirect fire. The enemy was firing rockets as that bird landed. A guy who maybe had taken a few steps on the Firebase that he was supposed to be at for the next nine months, was now getting medevac’d off of that Firebase. He hadn’t even spent a minute at the Firebase yet. He was supposed to be out there for nine months and he’s already being medevac’d. He took shrapnel from the rockets. I remember thinking, “Man, this is serious.”

At our Firebase our CWO and I started working on the handover portion and we'd been there maybe a few days at this point. Another Special Forces team was driving to our Firebase and was ambushed, and then ultimately, called in for QRF (Quick Reaction Force). So they were calling in for help… they were pinned down. Out of all my deployments, it's not common for teams to be calling in for QRF. And when that happens, generally things are not going well in that fight.

The team that we were doing the handover with got spun up (ready to go) and our CWO, was like, “Hey, we're going with you guys.” It was all hands on deck. And so then we all got on the birds to go provide QRF for this other team that's in an ambush and I was like, “Okay, I'm going into real combat right now. This is it.” And I remember thinking, “Man, we haven't been here for very long, and there are dudes already dying. These are SF guys dying… Americans and other guys that haven't been here for very long who were wounded already.” And then here I am, my full team is not even in Afghanistan, and I'm going on this mission. I’ll admit, for a moment, I was kind of worried about it.

But then I talked to our CWO who was super experienced and he said, “Hey, look, here's the plan, this is what we're going to do.” And everything just went away, any worry that I had was gone. And I thought, “Okay, I know how to do this. This is a part of my training.” I was no longer worried about it. We got on Blackhawks and flew to where this ambush was taking place to try to maneuver on the enemy and support these guys that were pinned down, and ultimately, at the end of that fight, I would be carrying my first dead American Special Forces Soldier.

There was another SF soldier, a part of that quick reaction force that would get shot, and ultimately die. I would later be helping carry him and put him in the back of a truck. It was barely the first week and that was my experience going into it. You want to do a good job and you want to perform well. And I might have had thoughts of, “I don't know how I will do in combat,” but you want to be a good teammate. But there's also maybe a little bit of a feeling of, “Okay, I can really die doing this, just like any one of these other guys.”

But after being so close to someone losing their life, I thought at that point I just needed to accept that I was going to die in combat at some point. From there on, I didn't really worry about it anymore. It sounds dark saying that. But, that served me really well, in a way because if I'm not worried about dying anymore, maybe I can do my job a little bit better. And that carried me through a lot of deployments and I probably did a lot of things where I was taking a greater risk than maybe what I should have in certain situations. It ultimately worked out in the end though. All of that during my first week was my introduction to Afghanistan.

And that's certainly painful, losing somebody. So quickly, you talk about the experience of that and kind of starting to accept being able to realize the pain there was. Did you feel anything build as far as pain in that first instance? Or did it take time for that to really occur and build up? Or is there just a realization like, “Hey, this is war? This is the way it is.”

Chris: This is not the right answer. But if there were any kind of feelings about the loss of life... I think at that time, if there was anything coming up inside, I just buried it deep. I don't have a memory of it phasing me too much beyond the fact of knowing that this was a real war, and people die and people get messed up physically and mentally. The mental side of the coin wasn’t even something that I had awareness of at that time.

Just from my perception, I don't think there is a right answer. I think your answer is the right answer. That's what you experienced so that is the right answer.

Chris: I would continue that process over time, in just not letting myself feel. That became a habit. It seems like it works really well in combat. But then whenever you get out of the military, or you have a family, those things do not mix. You need to be able to feel those emotions. Because ultimately, at some point, if you continue to bury stuff, it's going to come up, and then you're going to have to deal with it. And, it may not be at a time or place that you want to deal with it. And so I've had to learn that over time. As someone I know says, “It's not about feeling better, it's getting better at feeling.”

I would say for the longest time I was so emotionless in a lot of ways except for anger. That was one of the few emotions I felt and it was a lot of times at an extreme. And, I'd never heard this until recently. It totally could’ve been a mindset of  ‘the only feeling you should feel is recoil.’ Again it sounds like this would work well in combat, and it does for a time. But I now know that this prevented me from being a better leader, better teammate, and a better human in other areas of life. It’s not suitable, and it took me a long time to learn that.

So you talked about that first mission and that experience on subsequent missions, and as your track ascended through special operations you learned. Did you enjoy it? Did you feel like it got better? Do you feel like it got tougher? I mean, what was that like, as your career progressed?

Chris: Each deployment was different from my first deployment to Afghanistan. Every trip was different in a number of ways. Even the first half of my first deployment to Afghanistan was different than the second half. The first four or five months we had tons of support, in all aspects. Support in terms of the fact that we were doing a lot of work with the agency where they had phenomenal intel. We also had a lot of dedicated aircraft support. This was a fun time in a lot of ways. Some days, we'd be sitting on the HLZ (Helicopter Landing Zone) of our Firebase with the birds running, where the blades weren’t spinning but they were ready to go. The agency guys would get a grid, and we'd all run to the bird and then go to that place and hit that target. It could be anywhere. This was all in Afghanistan, but because of the training that we had, it didn't necessarily matter.

The bird would set us down and we would move and execute, and we had infantry support at that time. They would surround the area, so no one was squirting out (leaving) of the area. The intel, the infantry support, and everything was just phenomenal. We went from that to the second half of that trip not having any of that. Everything was different even down to the terrain. The mission set was a little bit different and we had a lot less in terms of support. There were some aspects that were just a lot of fun. My second trip to Afghanistan had similarities but also differences. I was just so hungry, on that second trip, even more so than on the first one. I’d also gotten to go to some really good schools in between deployments.

A lot of schools that other SF guys were not able to attend as it was hard to get a slot, and then the attrition rate was pretty high. And then at some point, you may or may not finish the course, because you're not meeting whatever standard. But the training that I got in that school, I just felt like it took my shooting to a whole other level. It took a lot of these combative skills and amped them up, preparing me more for a direct action team. A lot of our focus was hitting targets, and clearing compounds. I felt like a lot of these guys that were on the team when I first got there had greatly elevated my skills, and then going into that school, that brought them to an even higher level. And that trip was a lot of fun as well because our team was getting plussed up. Initially, I was an 18 Charlie, which is a Special Forces Engineer.

So, construction and explosives were a part of my skill set. Engineers are responsible for a lot of the logistics side as well. So it may be whatever supplies that we needed and then managing inventory over all of this team equipment that we had. It's not super sexy. It's a lot of hand receipts and paperwork. But, because the teams were being plussed up at that time, there were three other engineers, in addition to myself that were now on the team. One of them was now focusing on intel. I got in on that deployment maybe a month late. Guys were already there because I was finishing up a school. As soon as I finished that school I got on the next bird Afghanistan to join the team. Those other engineers were already taking care of all the property stuff, all the hand receipt inventory aspects of it. Those things are not on the recruiting poster but all that stuff was already being done. So all I had to do was be an assaulter. I just had to go on missions, get on target, and do my job and that was awesome.

It made things a lot of fun, and then on that trip, I really got to be involved in a lot of the mission planning. Then on the next trip, things began to feel different. I would do another short trip to Afghanistan. That was the one that I was telling you about with Riley (Stephens). I ended up getting stuck there longer than I planned. I was the last 3rd group guy in Afghanistan at that time. The Firebase that I went to was so remote, and it was just really hard to get any kind of support even to fly out. Driving wasn’t even an option. So then, one bird got canceled to come pick me up. The next one wasn't scheduled for another two weeks or something like that. I ended up being there a whole lot longer than planned. And I want to say there was a Battalion Sergeant Major, or Company Sergeant Major, who had called and said, “Hey, you know, you're the last 3rd group guy and you’re going to be the last one here. Are you okay with staying there?” As if I had an option (laughs). Which I was totally fine with staying.

You mentioned the late Riley Stephens, you know, son of Mick and Joanne. Riley’s story was a part of The Caregiver Project through Mick. I didn't know him personally but getting to meet his parents and all that and seeing the power of the emotional things that they experienced is just, it's terrifying. It's tough. But it adds richness to life and helps you better understand the contrast of how tough things can be. His parents are incredible. I told Mick this one time, “I wish I didn't know you, because I know you because of him, and I wish you wouldn't have had to lose him.” Those sacrifices are essential to maintaining what we have. You said, you remember, Riley?

Chris: I think the last time that I really interacted with Riley was when we were flying over to Afghanistan. This was 2008. Some of the things he was talking about were his family and his future plans. Once we both got to Kandahar, we kind of went our separate ways. I went out to my Firebase, and he went out to where his team was going to be and of course, you don't really know what the future holds. You can never know who is going to be there or not. At some point, I accepted that not everyone could be there and that wasn't healthy. Like I said before that might have helped me in Afghanistan, but that attitude prevents connection. Because if you continue to protect yourself by not believing that person may be there much longer, how much are you investing in that person? There are a lot of hard lessons that I've had to learn over time. I’m also thankful for so many people who have taught me so much, which has allowed me to grow and become a better person.

But as you said, in the central moments of combat, and some of that is necessary, you know, some of that is you have to keep a level of distance, probably in order to be effective at what you do. Or is that true?  

Chris: I haven't asked anybody else about this so I can't say that this is a common thing but it’s just what my brain was doing, to protect myself. Unfortunately, it carried over into life beyond the military. There was a time when I was having similar thoughts with my own family and the people that I cared the most about, thinking about the most tragic thing that could happen to them throughout the day. Dozens of times over. If something bad did happen to the people that I cared most about, then it wouldn’t hurt as bad because I’d already mentally prepared myself for it. It's an awful way to live. It's not even really living because how can you love someone that way?

I don't think you can. On one trip a team near us lost a total of four guys in a very short period of time. There was almost half a team remaining. The guys that were killed from that team, my teammates knew really well. And when that happened, I remember some of my teammates had been really upset about it. Looking back on it, those were normal emotions. There was a feeling of grief, and there was some anger. But I was the guy that was like, “Hey, everybody needs to stop moping around. We still have work to do.” And, that's not the right answer.

Do you regret that? Do you regret the way you responded in those moments?

Chris: I know it's not the right thing to do. I've learned that. Because, like we were talking about earlier, I was just pushing all of my emotions down and thinking that was going to work out well in the long run. And it doesn't, and while others may have been letting themselves experience those emotions and maybe were going through the process a lot healthier than I was, it's not the right thing to do. But I try not to have a mindset of being weighed down by some action that I cannot change at all. Would I do something totally different now? Yeah, absolutely. But, it's not something that I let really weigh on me or hold me back. It's not the right thing but I can't change that.

So you did seven tours, right? What do you feel? You learned a lot of lessons. Seven tours of combat. But what do you feel was one of the more powerful moments in all those experiences? Maybe there were one or two that really stuck out to you?

Chris: I learned so much about leadership. I don't want to boil it down to a single moment, because there are so many, but one of the first ones that comes to mind is that I had a team leader who, I can't remember when I heard him say this, but he said something about, wanting to put himself in the most dangerous place in in the fight. And maybe at the time, it didn't really hit me, but I later understood the power in that. It wasn't about glory. He wasn’t trying to be the superhero of the battle, but what he was trying to do was put himself in the most dangerous place in the fight and affect that space.

If a leader is willing to put himself in the most dangerous place and they're willing to do things where other guys may be saying, “I don't know about that.” If he’s willing to put himself there, then there’s a thought of, “I should be able to put myself there too.” If he is going to put himself there when he doesn't have to, then we are definitely gonna be right there with him. That carries over into life where I never try to put myself above anybody. There were a couple of times when you called me “sir”, where I know it's a politeness thing. But, I don't even want that because it almost seems like I'm above you. I’m above no one. You should be willing to do everything… even burning shit, and I am definitely willing to do that. I'm not going to ask anybody to do something that I wouldn't do myself, or I haven't done already. I want to be right there next to you. That’s something I learned and I’ve continued to carry with me.

That's an awesome attitude. I love it. Were there dark moments for you overseas? Did you have comedowns and did any of those happen overseas?

Chris: There were certainly moments when I didn't think I would survive or make it out of that situation. However, I did make it through, and things worked out. I wasn't about to give up, no matter how grim the situation appeared. If anything, I was determined to try even harder, so these challenging moments came and went quickly. While they may have felt like a lifetime in the heat of the moment, in reality, they were brief.

Even after the ordeal, I was able to joke about it. However, when I left the military to work as a contractor and continued deploying, it wasn't until my family and I moved back to Texas that I left that whole world behind. It had been my entire adult life, and that's when things started unraveling. Gradually, I started to acknowledge this, sparking an ongoing journey of healing that I've been on ever since. I believe that through this journey, I've grown significantly as a human being. In some ways, I feel like I'm continuing to grow, which may sound strange. At times, it feels like I'm just beginning to fully embrace life right now. I say this in anticipation of what the future holds. While I can't predict exactly what it will look like, I believe it will be positive, and I'm genuinely excited about experiencing it.

That’s what makes Green Berets so good at what they do. You guys work together as a team so effectively. Was there an adrenaline dump after that?

Chris: By the end of that day, we had killed somewhere around 50 to 55 enemy fighters. This was our second mission in this particular valley but the first time we went there it resulted in very close to 80 enemy killed in action. It was a really bad area. But after that, we moved. I can't remember how far we moved from that spot where a lot of the fighting took place, but it wasn't far. We ended up staying overnight in the area. It wasn't exactly camping; essentially, we spent the night in our trucks, offset from where that fight took place.

We were on rotating shifts, taking turns being up in the gun with night vision, pulling security, and getting a little bit of sleep here and there. You're up, pulling security, and then back down, only to be up again. At one point, during the last time I was down sleeping, I had a dream that we had to go back to that same spot. In my dream, that period of night had ended, and we had to go right back into that same valley. When I woke up, I remember joking about it. We did end up returning to the area, but not to the exact same spot. We actually discussed this last night, and sometimes I think it's easier if you lose someone in a combat zone than it is being stateside at the funeral for a service member we’ve lost.

When you're deployed, you still have important tasks to perform. If something happens to somebody, it's not just over, and you don't sit at the firebase for the rest of the time. There are still missions and a lot of ongoing things you need to do. It makes it easier because, in a way, you have to move on to the next thing. However, stateside, the families are left in a place of tremendous grief. There's a lot of time to dwell on that extremely tragic occurrence. Losing anyone is terrible, but directly witnessing how it affects the family members – the parents, siblings, and childhood friends – and the emotions they go through, made me never want to attend another funeral again. I believe it's much easier to move past something tragic that happens down range than on the back end when service members come home in a casket.

You mentioned the wheels falling off, you know, and eventually, they did for you, right? What was that like?

Chris: It was 2013 when I started to recognize things were going south for me. In 2012, I was a contractor, and I was still deploying. My son was born that year. I knew I wanted to be a dad who was there with him as much as possible. I don’t know if I can convey how much it means to me to have my family with me all the time. I take them everywhere that I can and I still do a lot of travel. By the time my son was 10 years old, he’d been to 10 different countries. I try to take my family everywhere because I want to be with them. I want to be a present father, and I need to be a good dad.

That’s one of the most important things to me in this life. I knew that even before my son was born. I realized I had to make a change in my life because I couldn’t keep deploying all the time. It wasn't aligned with what I needed to do. I have a lot of old teammates who have double-digit deployments and multiple kids, and they love their children more than anything. I have immense respect for them because leaving a family behind for a deployment is incredibly challenging. I simply knew that I needed to be at home more.

When my son was born I was supposed to be deployed at that time but I was able to stay back for the birth. Right after the birth, I was back overseas. I knew going into it that this would be my last deployment. When I returned from that trip, it was about two months later that I walked away from that life forever. I moved my family back to Texas, and this is where we've been ever since.

Leading up to the move, I had technically been a “civilian" for three-plus years but the reality was that I was still doing many things that were very familiar to me when I was on active duty. I was around military personnel all the time, still deploying, and remained a part of special operations. When I was stateside, I continued working with SOF (Special Operations Forces) and interacting with my old teammates, attending Team parties, and so on.

All of a sudden, that was entirely gone. Moving back to Texas, while it may seem like I had a lot of community with my family in the area, I actually had very little in terms of a network. It was really challenging to connect with anyone here. I tried several veteran organizations, but it just wasn't the right fit for me. There are at least 60,000 undergraduate students in the area where we live. It’s a college town so much of the area is geared toward the student population.

I overheard someone ask the other day, and it had been a while since I'd heard it, but they wondered, "What do you do around here as a grown adult if you're not a student?" Many activities and resources in the area are primarily focused on the student population, and when you have such a large student population in a smaller town, it can be challenging to establish connections. If you're not part of the university, whether as an employee or student, you're missing out on a significant portion of our small community. I distinctly remember driving by the university one day, in the middle of the day, and seeing someone wearing pajamas casually crossing the street while grabbing Starbucks.

I recall feeling a surge of frustration and thinking, “This is what this town revolves around. It's focused on people like this who haven't contributed anything to this country. And it seems like this is what matters most to everyone – an 18-19-year-old kid who hasn't achieved anything. Meanwhile, I and others I know have given so much, and yet somehow, we're not included in this.”

Now, I have a different feeling about that. These are the freedoms we have – if you want to do something like walk across the street at 2 a.m. wearing a clown suit, you can totally do that. It's fine (laughs). This is part of why we serve so that we all have the freedom to do those kinds of things. Now I’ve found my place in this community and there's an overwhelming amount of support. Especially for veterans but also for anyone in the community. So much so that I’m not sure I deserve all of it. I’ve been to some amazing places all over the world now and how great the people are in this community is what makes us never want to leave. I’m immensely thankful for the people and support we have here.

However, at the time, I didn't feel like I belonged here. I believed I no longer fit in stateside. I thought to myself, "This is not where I belong; I belong in a combat zone." It was incredibly challenging to have those thoughts because I had left the entire world of the military or being a contractor, linked to the military, to be at home and try to do what I believed was the right thing. I wanted to be a good dad, husband, and family man, yet I felt like I didn't belong here. I felt the need to leave it all behind and return overseas. It was a difficult realization to accept.

At that time, my wife wasn't aware of this, but I had been in touch with the old company I had worked with. They approached me and said, "Hey, we need you to go overseas for a whole year." I hesitated, thinking, "I really don't want to commit to a whole year. I know there are other contracts out there where I can work a couple of months at a time." So, I went through the entire application process with another contracting company and updated my passport. My wife didn't even know I was doing this, but I just felt like that's where I needed to be.

Then, I began training again to get back into the best shape I could be in. It was during this period that I started recognizing there were many physical issues I hadn't addressed. I had neglected self-care almost entirely.

Before, I was running at such a high operational tempo for so long that I thought, “I'm going to keep pushing this off to the side. There are guys I know who have injuries like mine, and they were medically retired because of them.” However, those injuries were preventing me from getting into the shape I needed to be to go overseas and be someone others could rely on. So, I came to the realization that, “Okay, I don't belong here in the States anymore.” I initially thought I belonged overseas, but now, my body had accumulated so many miles on it. It was wrecked, and I couldn't achieve the level of fitness required because of it. I felt like I had no place here in the States. In fact, I felt like I had no place on this planet, and it was just an awful feeling. It’s a really dark place to go to. Somehow, I just kept moving though.

There are two organizations that I really attribute to tremendous healing, growth, and a positive trajectory in my life. Team RWB was the first of these two organizations that I interacted with. Mike Erwin is the individual who founded Team RWB. He was our battalion's intel officer when I was at 3rd Group. I actually have a book that's all about resume writing, cover letters, and even composing follow-up emails after job interviews. It provides guidance for transitioning into the civilian world. This book was given to me as part of my out-processing from the Army, and I still have it today.

On the cover of the book, I had written down "Captain Erwin" along with his phone number because, during my transition from the military, I had discussed contracting work with Mike. I remember him giving me advice on what I should do, saying something like, "You should be able to make way more money than you're making in the Army..." Ironically, I initially took a pay cut when I first started working as a contractor. It's funny to me how Mike's name is on a book that I still have in my house, and here we are several years later.

At some point, I got on social media, and Mike Erwin was one of my friends on social media. I saw him posting Team Red, White, and Blue stuff and wearing the eagle. I thought if Mike was saying this is a good organization, there's value in it, and it's great for veterans, then that's something I need to be a part of. I don't need to know anything else. I just know that if Mike Erwin says there's value here, then I know that it's true.

He was that good of an officer that he carried that kind of weight with you? We know, Mike, and what a great guy he is. But he meant a lot to you, obviously.

Chris: I didn't mention this earlier. But I had another MOS (Military Occupation Speciality), this would have been my fourth MOS. It seems like I was collecting MOSs (laughs). While I was on a team, my fourth MOS was Special Forces Intel Sergeant. So after being a Special Forces Engineer Sergeant, I ended up being an 18 Fox, or Special Forces Intelligence Sergeant. I interacted with Mike a lot more because of the intel side of things and interacted with Mike’s soldiers. During deployments, Mike had some of his soldiers who were assigned to our area of operations who helped out with targeting and the intelligence picture. Even before that, just the role that Mike played in his shop and big operations. I mean, if you read the book Lions of Kandahar, a lot of that stuff was driven by the intel shop that Mike was in charge of, among many others. He was just doing a great job in that position.

So, I got on the Team RWB website in 2013. RWB was relatively new then, but there were chapters popping up all over. I feel like 2013 was a really big year for Team RWB in terms of growth. That's when the whole chapter model started, where you have volunteer leaders in all these different cities putting on physical and social events. They were leading these events and inviting veterans and any member of the community to participate in them at low or no cost, which is incredible. There's so much value in that. I had tried all these other veteran organizations, and my wife came with me to one of the meet-ups. They immediately separated her and said something like, “Okay, if you're a spouse, you need to wait out here until the meetings are over. You can't come in if you're not a veteran.” I get that there's value in having groups like that, but that was not a good fit for me.

I spent enough time away from my family and I made all these changes in my life to be around my family. The last thing I wanted to do was do something else without them. With RWB, it didn't matter if my wife had served. It didn't matter if someone had deployed or not. She needed to be brought into the fold. There were so many races early on where I started to become known as the dude who was running with a stroller, and this giant American flag sticking out of it. My family was heavily a part of it all. They were allowed to be, which was very important to me and we all got a lot of value out of that. Chapters were sprouting up everywhere, and there was a map on the website. I kept checking it all the time to see if there would be a chapter that would show up in our town, but nothing was happening.

I saw that Houston, Austin, and some of the bigger cities already had chapters. I checked pretty frequently, waiting for one to come to my area so I could be a part of it. I now know that sometimes you can't just wait for something; sometimes, you have to make it happen. But at the time, I didn't ask myself that question. I was just waiting for it to happen. I met a guy here in town named Mark, and we are still very good friends today. I mentioned him yesterday. He overheard me talking about Team RWB to someone else at an event that I was hosting. He said, “Hey, another guy is trying to get a chapter started.” And there was a Facebook group they were using to get things going. Mark added me to that group, on September 13, 2013. I remember that day because it became a significant point in my life where change was going to begin to happen.

There were a lot of good people who wanted to get together and make something happen. Ultimately, my wife and I poured ourselves into it. Initially, I just wanted to be a guy hanging out with other veterans and members of the community. However, that transformed into me becoming a Veteran Outreach Director and, ultimately, the Chapter Captain for several years. We volunteered for Team RWB and, with the help of so many others, helped build the local Chapter. The Chapter is still active to this day, and it's great to see the impact it continues to make on the community, veterans, and military members who are transitioning out of the military and need something to connect to.

Many positive changes occurred in my life during this time. I found a sense of purpose. Team RWB emphasizes three things: health, people, and purpose. I discovered a new purpose by helping organize events, leading meetings, and connecting with others. I had a whole new, powerful sense of purpose that my family and I shared. Then, my health improved due to the first race I attended. Normally, I wouldn't have gone to it because of certain issues and injuries that were hindering my ability to run. When I arrived, I decided to walk at first. I had the stroller with my son in it, but then I realized I had to run. I needed to move my body. I did just that. It wasn't the fastest 5k I've ever done, by any means, but I realized something. Despite my injuries, I needed to do whatever I could. Physically moving my body was crucial. It's incredibly important to me, and I've become a better human being because of it.

We discussed the chemicals that are released in your body due to exercise yesterday. I had been experiencing the effects of those chemicals, which made me feel good, for years and years. However, when you cease exercising, your body no longer receives those benefits it craves. In fact, it's probably worse than if you had never been active in your life. I came to understand that it's not something you can just stop. I needed to maintain continuous physical activity. I acquired this insight through Team RWB. My health improved in that regard, and even now, I am constantly seeking challenges through activities like running or CrossFit.

I wouldn't have found my way back to that path if it weren't for my time with Team RWB. I still make an effort to uplift numerous members, especially when they might be facing health challenges. I strive to provide them with encouragement, even a simple gesture like saying, "Hey, bro, have you visited the VA? Are you keeping up with your workouts?" But if I'm urging them to do it, I need to be right there with them, leading by example. It's important that I practice what I preach. I also recognize the importance of staying connected with others. Isolation is one of the steps in that downward spiral. I was determined not to fall into that pit.

A lot of that kickstarted the healing journey that I've been on. I ended up doing a lot more things within Team RWB after that. Even last year, I still did some volunteer work with them. This year, we hosted a Memorial Day workout at my work, and I want to turn that into something monthly. Maybe it ends up being a monthly run where we all gather at my workplace and go for a run. I'd really like to do some meditation sessions with a group because I think there's immense power in that, and it's a big part of my life now.

You've obviously experienced a lot in life, period. You went overseas and then came back. All that you've done in having a family, a son, and a wife, and then, you know, the wheels fell off. You talked about that, Tim, Team RWB helped get you through that. There are a lot of aspects to that – physical, mental, spiritual – your health was waning. And you've said you've since felt like you've gotten on the right path. Right, right. You mentioned another organization as well that Marcus Capone started. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Chris: That's Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS). You mentioned Amber and Marcus Capone, who started the organization. I owe so much to them. I don't even know where to start on that. There are a lot of aspects that Team RWB had really helped with, but there were still some things that I was struggling with and that could be summarized as operator syndrome. There's a whole white paper on operator syndrome, and it's a laundry list of symptoms that SOF guys can experience. I mentioned the VA and I’ve gone through a lot with them. I think this is just Western medicine, in general, but it’s usually just about treating the symptoms. So, if you have a headache, “Let's just throw some meds at it to make the headache stop…” versus what's really going on that's causing it. What is the root cause where we can get to the problem and can fix that?

I had even gone outside the VA and did everything from acupuncture to transcendental meditation to going up to the Cleveland Clinic and doing their functional medicine work, which I learned a lot from. That kind of has shaped the way I think about health and treatment of that root cause. I had tried the gamut of things to quietly work on myself. If you're to picture, say a room, and you turn a light on in the room and then go outside of that room and close the door. You can see this little bit of light coming out from the bottom of the door. That little bit of light represented how far I felt I had moved the needle with all of this work that I had done inside and outside of the VA had moved the needle so I could see a little bit of that light.

I felt like after going through VETS and their program, it was as if you took that door off the hinges and all the light started coming through. What you see now is a product of that. The treatment protocol that I went through was Ibogaine-assisted therapy followed by 5MeO-DMT. Ibogaine comes from the Iboga shrub that grows in Western Africa, it is taken from the root bark of the Iboga shrub. 5MeO-DMT, five-methoxy-dimethyltryptamine, is a venom that comes from a toad that's native to the Mexico and Arizona area.

These are two of the most powerful psychedelics that are out there. It's hard to even summarize the impact that it has. I guess maybe I should start with the fact that when I went through treatment, I had planned to tell no one about doing that. Besides the people I went through treatment with, only my wife knew. At the time I felt like, “Man, this is way out there and it’s not something I really want others even knowing about.” I think people would pass judgment on me because both of those treatments in the States are considered Schedule One meaning they have “no medicinal value”, and have the” potential for abuse”.

I think that idea is wrong. I now know they have medicinal value, and they're actually anti-addictive. It's not something that you want to do multiple times. I'll talk more about the addiction piece in a minute. Everything, as a part of my treatment, was totally legal. I had to go outside the country for that part of the program. It’s not some random back alley treatment. Prior to doing the treatment, there are all kinds of medical screenings, you do blood work, and it’s all taken very seriously. There is a lot of preparation leading up to it. And afterward, there's tons of support and reintegration measures and everything that VETS offers to every grant recipient.

I thought initially, “I'm just going to take my benefits and then go live my life and not say anything to anyone.” I still believe other drugs are bad but this was something that was different. Trying something like this was a little bit out of my character but I was in a place where I’d tried so many other things with little to no success and I knew that I could be in a better place.

Now I see that there's so much potential in life and I see this in other guys too. This treatment has saved their lives. So many of the guys get to this point of, “Okay, I don't think this will work. And when it doesn't, I'm coming back and I'm going to this field and I'm going to kill myself,” but after that treatment they come back with nothing but love, gratitude, compassion, and just being on fire for life. I have been in a similar place.

To be clear, these medicines aren't a panacea. There's a lot of work that I've put in on the back end that has kept this positive direction going. A lot of that is continuing the same things that I learned from Team RWB: having that community, being physically active, I’m feeling that purpose again. Meditation and journaling are also a huge part of my life. I do journaling every day. I still do the cold plunges as well. I guess if you do the cold plunge, you have to tell people that you do the cold plunge (laughs).

There's a lot of work that I've done to keep these benefits going. Again, it's not like this treatment is a magic pill; it's not going to remove the need for any continued work. I'm still very active in this healing journey for myself. I owe so much to Marcus and Amber for getting this thing started and accepting me as a grant recipient. Because back then, I didn't know anyone who had gone through this kind of treatment. I didn't know any SF guys who had gone through treatment. I knew that word had begun to spread in the SEAL community with several guys having been through the treatment. I was going into it without any personal connections associated with it. But I thought, “If this thing kills me, then whatever…” but it turns out it did the opposite. It gave me more life than I could ever ask for.

So now in moving forward in life, obviously, you know, getting to see over the weekend with your son and a wife. It's really cool. We both talked about how important our families are to us. My mom just texted me before the podcast and was telling me we're all capable of accomplishing even more than we think we can sometimes and my family has been so massive to me. I don't even know if I've ever talked about my family on the podcast, but I'm so thankful for them and all that they've done in love and support of the project. It’s phenomenal. My journey as a Christian has been aided by them so much. What does it mean to you to have your family by your side now at this point in your life?

Chris: Well, first I want to say that I love what you just said about your family, and how important they are to you. I love that. My family is everything. I can’t underscore that enough. One thing I mentioned earlier is that I try to drag them along on everything that I'm doing. I try to have them be a part of it all as much as I can. We're a small family, it's the three of us, but it means the world to me to be able to spend so much time with them.

I want to make a special acknowledgment of my wife Becca. Many spouses go unthanked for their service to this country. The amount that Becca has done for our family during and after my time in service is not easily summarized. She never batted an eye with any of the seven deployments nor me being gone in between those trips for individual or team training. She did so much to support me so I could focus on my job in the military and be at my best for others. She still continues to support me in anything I do. I wouldn’t be half the man I am without her. God has given me a great gift in her. I’m thankful we were blessed with a wonderful son, Colton, who is growing into a great young man.

Is there one single piece of advice you'd give other veterans that would be profound for them? What would that be?

Chris: You have to find a new purpose. Don’t ever think that the military is the greatest thing that you will ever do. Because if you have that thought, then I think that will come true. There's so much more to life and so much more to do. You can potentially have an even greater impact outside of the military. Find that new purpose as your best days are ahead of you. Not behind you. I think that's so important.

Don't stop working out. That doesn't mean you have to go running at 5 a.m. every day. If you like swimming, go do that. If you like to kayak, go kayaking, or if CrossFit is your thing, go do that. But do something to move your body and stay active. It does wonders for your physical health and your mental health.

Stay connected with people whether that's people in your community or family members, whatever it may be. I believe we are designed to be social creatures. And without that interaction, there is suffering. Don’t isolate. We all will encounter challenges throughout life, whether we’ve served in the military or not. Don't try and go through that alone. If you're hurting, you have to reach out and keep reaching out until you find someone who will support you through whatever that challenge may be.

I think those are all really important. I'll add this last one that I didn't mention earlier, but when I came back from treatment events, which has now almost been two years, I haven't had a drop of alcohol. I haven't had a cup of caffeinated coffee, no energy drinks and I’m not saying that’s a good fit for everybody. Just don't booze it too hard. It’s not great for the brain, especially with all the TBIs a lot of us have had. I went down that path. It was part of me circling the drain. I meant to talk about that on the addiction side of things. With treatment through VETS, there are guys who can go in, sometimes with a severe addiction to various substances, such as alcohol, nicotine, pills, heroin, or opioids, and then come out addiction-free. If you're going to drink, "Okay, that's fine. But don't go too far with it." That's just my opinion. For me, alcohol and caffeine no longer have a place in my life and I’m a better person for it.

Can you talk a little bit about what you’re working towards now?

Chris: I started a company called KLĒNR that offers natural products that are better for you. How all that started was a part of this whole healing journey. Learning that cancer is one of the leading causes of death in the Special Operations community was just a part of all of this research and everything that I had been doing over the past decade. Continually pursuing how I can be the best version of myself. I was curious as to why cancer was so high in the SOF company. One of the things that I learned was chemical stress and chemical exposure is a big part of that it’s cause. In the Special Operations community, guys are overexposed to a lot of things.

I mean, a lot of veterans have been exposed to the whole burn pit issue, breathing in all of that. There are special operations guys going into shoot houses over and over again, doing explosive breaches, and interior/exterior breaches, and it's kicking up all this lead and all the stuff that has just been collecting in shoot houses. When you do those breaches, you're breathing in that stuff, it's getting on your clothes, and it's getting on your skin, being absorbed through the skin. That’s when I really started paying attention to what I was putting on my body. I couldn't change what had happened in the past or what I’d been exposed to in the past, but what I could do was change what I was being exposed to going forward.

My wife and I initially turned to some all-natural brands and learned that even those contain synthetic fragrances and sometimes harmful chemicals in these products. We started making some of these products for ourselves, something that was cleaner and better for you and didn't have a lot of these harmful ingredients. I mean, looking at labels nowadays, it's like, "What is this stuff that we're putting on our body?" That's initially how it started, just making a lot of these products for ourselves. Now, we've reached a point where we can share them with others.

What that looks like is natural soaps, deodorant, beard oil, and pomade, among a few other items. That's our main focus right now, providing products that are all-naturally scented and made in the USA. Something that is cleaner and better for you. Sometimes I get the question of whether it's something I use myself, and it really sets me back when I hear that because that's how it all started. We began making this stuff for ourselves and our family, and I’m thankful we can share it with other peHow do you incorporate faith in your journey and where you're at?

Chris: I mentioned to you that I had grown up in a Christian household; I went to church and was pretty involved in the church. Even my wife and I have been pretty involved in the church to various degrees. Now I find myself reading the Bible as if it’s for the first time. It’s really hitting in a different way and at first, I didn't really know why that was. What I've settled on is this: I think that, for me, if I'm able to clear out a lot of this stuff that I've been carrying around with me— trauma or really difficult experiences—and I've been able to let go of a lot of that, it opens things up. It becomes almost a spiritual experience. It opens up this ability to, I would say, connect more with God. Be more aware of God. 

I believe there's a spark of God in all of us. And if I believe that to be true, I think it makes it easier for me to love other people and be kinder to them. Really, to do that, you have to have that same love, compassion, and gratitude for yourself. Having that allows me to be a better person for others. Life has become a great journey in itself. My beliefs are not something I push onto other people or anything; I love having conversations about it. Even some very good friends hold different beliefs from mine, and we're able to have open conversations about our beliefs. It's great to challenge your own thoughts, and I enjoy doing that. But my faith—my belief in God—has become a significant part of my life, that whole spiritual aspect. 

It's wonderful to witness a lot of spiritual growth in my wife and son too. Some of my own growth has come from my son. We're fortunate that he's able to attend a Christian school. Especially now with the way that a lot of public education has gone. He's in a place not only where it's a great education, but the values that they're teaching are great, and he has exposure to Christianity outside of just me and my wife. It's great to see the deep connection to God he has in his heart at a very young age. I think you might have asked him about the music he likes or maybe the music we listen to. He mentioned that we listen to a lot of Christian music now. It was really our son being exposed to it at school that made him want to listen to it. That's what got my wife and I into it. About two years ago, I would have told you I hated Christian music; it would have been the last thing I'd want to listen to.

It doesn't have to be Christian music; that's the thing. When I came back from treatment through VETS, a significant part of my outlook was paying incredibly close attention to the things that I was putting into my body. Not only was I looking at what I was applying onto my body or consuming nutritionally, which improved significantly after my treatment, but what I hadn't been mindful of were the other things I was absorbing into my body.

By "other things," I mean what I was watching on TV—such as the news. I don't watch the news anymore, because it's just a constant stream of negativity. Also, the music I was listening to leaned towards the darker side. Even the shows and content I was watching were all influences that, in one way or another, were entering my body through my senses. If these influences don't carry a positive message, and they contain a negative undertone, I believe that it can have a significant impact over time. Unfortunately, it won't be a positive one.

Since then, I’ve been really cautious about the things that I'm watching –the podcasts that I listen to. That's why I'm drawn to the content I consume now, mainly documentaries. I have a genuine love for learning. Listening to some of the Christian music that my son wanted to play – this was almost two years ago – I was initially hesitant, like, "I don't really want to listen to this." But I played it, and upon hearing it, I thought, "Man, this carries such a positive message." And it doesn't necessarily have to be Christian music.

But if you're introducing all this positive stuff into your body through music, what you're watching, or the people you're interacting with, and communicating with– man, I think it changes something, and in a positive way. It's been great to make this shift. We've even taken my son to a couple of Christian concerts, and initially, I was like, "Ah, I'm not really into it." But those have by far been the best concerts I've ever attended. It's been really cool. It's so powerful. 

We went to one recently and there was a moment where thousands of people in the stadium recognized, “Hey, we're all in this together. We need to treat each other kindly. We need to love and support one another through this journey.” It's just been incredibly meaningful. Continuing to learn more about many things from the Bible and other sources regarding my faith has been not only meaningful but also enjoyable. It's been a fun process of discovery and growth.

To learn more about Chris Thompson follow him on Instagram: @ct_chris_official, check out Team RWB and klēnr.com. Klēnr is also on Instagram, Facebook, and Threads. If you want to learn more about VETS head over to vetsolutions.org. Episode 51 of The Veterans Project Podcast with Chris Thompson will premier next week at thevetsproject.com/podcast and on every major platform.

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Team Red, White & Blue (Team RWB) is a nonprofit organization forging the nation’s leading health and wellness community. Founded in 2010, Team RWB supports veterans as they prioritize their well-being by offering real-life and virtual opportunities to build healthier lifestyles. Team RWB believes that a strong focus on mental and physical health impacts every aspect of life and is essential for veterans to unlock their full potential. For more information about Team RWB and its 200,000 members visit teamrwb.org.